Category: the Rant Board
Hi everyone,
This is partly a rant and partly a request for advice. I'm sure most of us have had to deal with parents who overprotect us because of our disability, but it's a whole new ball game once we grow up. My mother is one of these types of parents. My relationship with her has been contentious for most of my life for this reason, among others. There was a time during the first few years of my adult life when I thought the relationship might not be salvageable. Things seemed to get better, however, in the years after I moved out of her house for good. But one week of close proximity with her during my recent visit to Memphis was enough to show me that things have not changed one jot.
She insists on speaking for me to other people and prompting me to do things that I know very well to do on my own, refusing to grasp that this type of behavior furthers the ignorance of the people who witness it. She also insists on believing that I'm not capable of making decisions or handling situations in my life without her help, and she thinks that everyone around me is either taking advantage of me or pitying me. You know, one of the biggest control-freak clichés out there--Only I know what's best for you; everyone else is out to get you. She's also the type to go way off the deep end when things move out from under her control.
If I thought that there might be a mental health professional out there that would know how to counsel overprotective, controlling parents of people with disabilities, I'd recommend she go to them. I think the woman legitimately needs therapy. But I don't know, and I kind of doubt, that anyone would be able to provide that kind of help, and we couldn't go in together anyway because we live in different cities. I also doubt she'd go. But something's going to have to give, because I'm afraid that as I progress further in my life and my decisions become more significant, her need to have control in every decision I make is going to result in battles unlike any we've ever fought. And y'all, that's really saying something.
If I have to eventually cut ties with her, I will. I do not believe that blood is thicker than water. I feel that family, just like anyone else, should be in one's life only if they deserve to be. And while I would like to save the relationship with my mother, I have a bad feeling that the family decisions I make down the road, and her almost certain attempts to interfere in them, are going to be what severs the ties. Have any of you had this problem and found a way to overcome it? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Cuz I've 'bout had all I can take!
Thanks,
Becky
Hello, Beckey. I'm very sorry you are going through such a rough situation with your mother. I know what it's like, because I had a mother who was a control freek, so to speeck. And trust me, all parents feel they have to speek up for you or for me or any other children, they are afraid of letting go. I'm not justifying your mother, because I can imagine she goes to the extreme. Note, I don't know her and am not trying to insult anyone here. Ok, with that said, I have a few questions for you. Have you tried speeking up to her about the situation, about her behavior? Given that you are not with her, I am guessing you have. So now the next step would be to treat her casually. This tends to be difficult because my mother would say things like, I'm your mother and have every right to do what I want and the like, however, Once I started telling her that she wasn't going to treat me nor talk to me the way she was because it was unacceptable, she eventually understood. It took time though. Next, I'm sorry to say, but I'm not so sure she'll change. I don't know, my mother never did and I broke ties with her completely, because even if she understood she tried manipulating me in other ways. I tried distance too, I was in Mexico for three years and What a big mistake when I came back things didn't change one bit, they got worst because I was over 18. You have to take charge, don't allow her to control anything, you're the adult who is living your own life. Ok she is your mother, but I have a feeling that she is afraid of letting you be. In that case, if she gets out of hand, then some more serious steps must be taken. Sometimes in bad relationships talking is overrated because mothers, especially, have the same ongoing sermons. And you're like, ok mom, but this is different and many adults, parents, always feel they have to be right. So sorry if I didn't make scence, but I hope this helps. I admire your view about blood and water, sometimes friends turn out better than your own family.
If you are totally self-sufficient adopt what I call a strong heart or mind, and a deaf ear.
She only means the best for you, so in her mind she is doing you good. This won’t change, and she doesn’t need to talk to anyone about it, she knows.
You can hear her suggestions, but do exactly as you wish.
Visit her, but keep your visits short enough so you both don’t get uptight.
She will soon learn you can handle things, but she will not change, so forget about that.
I don’t think it worth cutting ties with your mother unless the over protecting hurts you in some way. If it is just irritating, use the top line, and enjoy her love.
You are an adult, so the law says you are your own boss. Step in to the shoes.
Yup. And I hate to say it, but as an adult yourself you may need to, at times, become the parent and put your foot down. I don't mean be nasty just firm.
Hi again. Your topic has caused me to think, so I’d like to add a couple thoughts.
When a person decides they are adult, they have to put away childish things, or should. This doesn’t always happen.
This means as an adult you try to understand the reasons behind your mothers over protectiveness, not fight it. You understand, that she was the person that brought you up from day one, dealt with all your illnesses, and such, and you will forever be her baby.
That doesn’t mean you must buckle under and accept whatever she dishes out, it means you must look at what she is dishing out, and make your decisions based on what it is worth without anger.
You look at her life, her choices, and learn from them, good, or bad, because she too has to make decisions, and some have not been the best.
I don’t know her or you, so I can’t say how well her advice is or isn’t, so I’m speaking generally.
Last, she knows you can do things on your own, she has seen you do this, but it sounds to me as if she wishes to give you some love, and care. Sure, it gets distracting, but as the adult, you understand this, and you accept the gifts she is giving.
We are not talking pride here, nor are we talking about a person you need to prove to that you can tie your own shoes, we are talking about a mother that wants to tie your shoes for you, to show you she loves you.
Again a strong mind and heart with a deaf ear only if you know what she is saying is not the best choice for you. But don’t stop listening. Hear what she has to say, and analyze it for value, and if she’s right, as the boss, and adult, you have to accept that, and not go against it just because your mother told you.
A real mother’s love is priceless, and many people simply don’t have it. Enjoy it, get smothered for a while, and then go home to your house.
Now I’ve said my 50 cents worth. Inflation, you know!
Hi. I can relate to your situation as well. I am in the process of trying to make my mom understand that I am now an adult, and I want to be the one in control of my life. The biggest problem she isn't understanding is the difference between making suggestions versus trying to tell me what I need to do. On top of this, she has her own issues that she needs to straighten out. As her oldest son I would much rather she get help with herselfthan try to help me, when she can't drive or get to see me without getting a driver of her own. However, she is my mother and I understand she doesn't see it the way I do. As Milagros said, I have stood my ground firmly and told her that I am the decision maker now and I would certainly appreciate suggestions, but I will not allow you to dictate my life from now on. Before you cut ties with her, I hope you try having this conversation at the least, if you haven't all ready. Say how you feel, what you want to change, and say it firmly. And again, this is a suggestion. Best of luck and message me if you want to.
In response to post 5:
I'm sorry but at times a parent's doting is unacceptible. We must all move on.
I'll be the odd one out, here, which is no surprise, but sometimes, cutting ties is the best thing you can do, both for yourself, and others that are involved.
you've made yourself clear to her about where you stand, both in showing her you're self sufficient, and using your words as an adult would and should. so, if she can't accept you as you are, mother or whoever she is, she doesn't deserve to be a part of your life in any way, shape, or form.
I left my maternal blood relatives over four years ago, after saying and doing my piece, and I'm proud to say with absolute certainty that it was the best decision I could've ever made.
they know where I stand, I know where they stand, and we're all better off without each other, in the end.
best of luck to you, though. feel free to reach out, if you want.
I'd have to agree with the last post. It's not just because they try to control you, but because they can't accept you and where you stand. It's the best thing I've done in my life for me and for them too.
That is what I mean by being the boss. First, you have to do the adult thing and decide if it is really that bad to cut ties.
If that is necessary, sure, but you don't want to do it for childish reasons, just because she told you something you didn't like, but that was perfectly correct and meant well.
Cutting ties is a strong measure, and should be used with restraint.
I always say that after a child becomes an adult, they now are at the place to decide is they wish to be your friend or not. Just because a parent brought a child in the world is no garrentee that child will even like you when they are grown.
The other side of that coin, is if you choose to not like a parent, you also must divorce yourself from their purse strings, and other protective measures.
You can't cut ties for say a year or two, than when you fall expect them to pick up your bad choices and make them go away.
Of course a real loving parent will do this even still, but the child doesn't have the right to expect it.
Note I say real parent, or mother.
Just because a person can bare a child doesn't make them fit to be parents. Some parents have not put away childish things.
use action rather than words to prove that you are an adult that have brain to think, have hands to do things, and have feet to walk on your own feet. I don't think this is honestly a problem with just kids with disability, yes, in our parents eye, we are always, forever, a kid regardless of age and status.
It took me years and years to convince that i'm capable, i'm safe and able to look after myself. But i'm not using it as words to argue with them, i work it with my actions, decisions, and directions that i take.
Cutting the ties type of things to say the lease is rather childish. If every kid cutting the ties with their parents because they are protective of their offspring, soon this world will be childless and parentless.
I'm not a parent, i can't say it to all pparents. Think about it, how do you feel if 20 years later, your kid come and tell you, hey daddy mommy, i gonna cut all ties with you because i'm tired of your protectiveness?
Parents need to learn and know how to let go, but ofspring also need to learn how to help the parents to learn to let go.
Yes.
but, Joanne, who are you to say every parental situation is cut childishly?
you don't know that, and having been friends with Becky for as long as I have, I know that the last thing she is, or the last thing that I am, is childish.
it goes much deeper than not liking what's said by your parent. in fact, it has nothing to do with what's being said, but rather, as we've said, the fact that, no matter how many times one shows/proves themselves to their parent, the parent remains willfully ignorant, and still wants absolute control of the child.
that's not right, and anyone who says people should tolerate it, obviously doesn't have a backbone themselves.
not just that, but it's not my job to teach my parent how to let go. if she can't learn that through my actions and words, she never will. so, if I want things to change, I have to be the one to make them change.
Ok a lot of good things said here. Joanne is right: we parents actually have to learn. Guess what kids! For the duration of your lifetimes, we've been feeding you, changing your diapers, helping you with homework, buying you summer camps and new shiny phones and cell phone plans with which to text and facebook your friends, albeit answering the parent's phone calls tends to come pretty low on that list.
Habits are hard to break. A parent's job is to be left. Except that human children are the most altricial of offspring. Disability may be just another reason or excuse but it isn't the whole package. Those of you who have pets know a very tiny bit of what it's like to be a parent. And trust me, teenagers are every bit as needy and dependent as the tiny ones. Only the needs are different and the dependence more masked.
So to help a parent learn what it is they need to learn, stop asking for anything from them. Start living on your own, making responsible choices, getting yourself out of your own mistakes. And when they see that, gradually, they will respond.
It does help if you separate yourself. I understand strained parental relationships: I was a kid once and there were things that were extremely challenging. My father confessed to me once that his mother didn't really see him as a full adult until he got back from Germany, where he'd been in the air force a couple years.
I know it's hard to do at 18 or whatever, but try to imagine if you had spent 18 years or more paying for, caring, for, worrying about, and generally looking after someone. Then if parents pay for your college, you do owe them an explanation of what you're doing or how the grades are coming along: it's not a control thing it's a money issue at that point.
If you really are the adult you say you are, make your plans, get yourself together, get resituated, and always stay above the emotional fray. I know in particular this can be a challenge with mothers or whoever is the more emotional parent but that is what you'll need to do to prove yourself an adult. I see that the same way as a bird hatching out of an egg. In most cases though, cutting ties is like when someone cracks that egg for the baby bird.
By just cutting ties neither you nor they learn anything, and you haven't learned the very important skill of negotiation and consideration of feelings other than just yours. I did say most situations. I know of abusive environments where that was the only choice, but the circumstances were clear then like an assault or a rape that was not believed by a parent. Not just someone being overprotective.
And even in the worst-case scenarios? Those poor individuals never did learn negotiation and the other things I mentioned, because that shell was just popped right off rather than the person having to work things through as an adult. Only in a child's world are things so black and white. I like what Wayne says about putting away childish things.
There's a difference between two situations here. I think most of you are thinking of the situation where the parents have a stable background, and the kid becomes an adult, and wants to go out and do wild things against what they know they are supposed to do/should do. However, we also have the scenario where that instibilaty exists. Alcohol addiction is a big problem in my family and it is a problem my mom continues to let dictate her life. I won't allow someone in that state of mind try and bring me down, because I can do better than that. I had to put up with alcohol and abuse for most of my life and I refuse to allow it to continue. Am I the bad guy because I tell my mother she needs to fix her issues first before she tries to help me? Maybe in her eyes and in the eyes of other family members, but so be it. I'm choosing my destiny and that is the point of becoming an adult.
That's different Ryan. The exceptions cannot dictate the norm. I do know what you're saying and I did clearly state there are exceptions. Alcohol abuse, sex abuse, restriction of movement or resrouces, or other control issues all would factor into these types of situations. But these are the exceptions and while you and Chelsea and similar people may be commended for making a clean break, you also know that isn't what's being talked about in a situation where there are just helicopter parents or overprotective types. Those are very different things.
Yes Uncle Leo, i totally agree with your posts. Of course, there're always some circumstances that beyond the standard norms. There are different between protective and posassive, love and abuse. no one knows what truely happen with the original poster who started this topic. From the first impression, the poster does not complain or outlining the family background. In fact, it states it quite clearly that the mother wanting the best, or what the mother think it is the best for the child. This is different from a parent that abuse the child, or otherwise suggest. From experience with different clients, and the patton of how things been write and explain here, i can quite comfortable to suggest that the poster is fall on some sort ofdisagreement with the mother, because clearly, the mother does not see things eye to eye with the poster. Again, of course, there is always other circumstances beyond the normal norms and pattons, but, from the post, there is no suggestion of abuse and addiction or such.
What i meant when i wrote it prove it with action, not with words is that, use your action to prove that you can taking care of yourself. That include patient, problem solving, and making decision skills. Parents need to learn how to let go their kid, but at the same time the kid also need to learn how to help their parent to let go. It took me years to convice my parents that i able to make good decision, able to be responsible for my own actions, and ready for all consequences of my actions/decisions. They know that i will fall, but they also know that if i fall, i'll be on soft ground, and i able to pick myself up again. This is not by sweet words on teling them day and night how independent or capable i am, this is by putting it in action. Actions that sometime may clash with them, against their wish, but actions that letting them know, when they leave this world, their child, their princess even though is blind, but is capable and self suffician to survive.
Yes, and this is why in my post I say real parents, and I say I am speaking generally.
I also said I didn't know the situation, nor the relationship.
In the case of Chelsea, cutting ties was a good choice, but in many cases, a "child" just wants to do what they want, when they want because they magically got 21, but aren't actually free of the purse strings.
Next, you've got to factor in love. That word again is love.
When a real parent loves a child they are attached for life, and they do get over protective. When that child wishes to be an adult, they understand that it is love and they work with the real parent to help them with the changes, not just get mad and take their toys and go home.
I am speaking generally.
The poser here seems vary well adjusted, so if that is true she'll take what she has read here and use it.
Now if she should come back and say her relationship is bad due to abuse over protectiveness, I'd have to say sure, cut ties, or seek help.
Normally seeking help doesn't work in parent child relationships, because the parent is abusive due to them not wanting to let go of the control. They do things to make a child suffer.
In that case, it is wrong.
Also, with Gen Y, typically 1980s and + generation, we also want to see things now and now. Often its about us, our own, is about speed, is about wanting it, not so much of thinking about needs, future, and patients. Of course, it is no one fault, just how the majority of the generation made from. We are the post war babies, we have the best education, best wellfair, best social and economic status with choices and options.
Not saying that is a bad thing, but often we fail to understand some principles and concepts that perhaps from our parents generations.
I agree, sometime, to cut off the relationship clean is the only way to go. But most of the time, there are other options as well. If one is dare enough, one can choose to move away to other state. If one is really as independent and capable as they say, one can always go somewhere new and start it again. That is also a way to prove to your parents that you are capable, you can be independent. This is what i consider as actions. However, again, any action has it's consequences. As long as you are ready for those consequences of your actions, and be responsible for it, don't see why not.
After leaving home for years, i come to appreciate the priceless of parentalship from my parents.
What you say is true in a sense, but no matter the generation the basic thing will never change.
I think it is the basic things most people fight parents over, because they want to control them.
Is that place you want to live really safe? Does that guy you are dating really care about you? Are you managing your money correctly? Eating well? Taking care of yourself?
These things will never change.
yes, you're right, Wayne.
I'll add to that by saying that if you're one who's fortunate to have good parents, I hope people treasure that immensely.
Hopefully the poster will be a good parent and wipe her daughters nose, even though she's 26, hold her hand, make sure she's eating properly, and when she comes home to visit is a royal pain in the ass, because she won't let her daughter do anything, not even tie her own damn shoes. Smile.
Where's my momma? Smile.
Sorry, Lio. Not that I care, but my parents didn't buy me shiny phones or fancy gajets, but they did buy them for my little brother. In fact she was a total control freek, I couldn't have friends that were not within her religious brotherhood, She had my e-mail password and printed them out when she told me I could trust her, I was spanked for the most minor of infractions, blamed for her life issues, things I didn't buy any longer. And I lived for the first 5 years with my grandmother, so I learned my first steps, how to eat, and all my skills from her. In other words, my grandmother changed my diapors, and her upbringing was done with so much love. So, my childhood with my mother taught me how not to be. It also taught me to be honest, even though that has gotten me into trouble. And of course, I kept her abuse quiet for most of my life, thinking that because she gave birth to me she could treat me however in hell she wanted. Not to mention her restrictions from her religion, she became fanatical. Ok but I lived with for many years without fighting against it, sure it was my choice, I guess. But then again she was the kind of person that told me after hitting me that if I ever told it would go worse for me. Ok, so when I came back from Mexico after the three best years of my life which were ruined by my step-grandfather, My mom became worse then when I was a minor. And she told me that if I was not going to follow her religion, that I was to leave. Ok, so I tried for things to be better for the both of us, but nothing was enough. And so I told her that I could respect her house, her rules, but that I don't share her beliefs. She said that she'd be uncomfortable if I lived with her because the religion is the basis of their life, and that if I was living with her they can't preach and have the privilages teey were given. Guess what? I tried, but I can't be forced into beliefs I don't withhold. So my life is much better, I have all the pravacy, love, and even my own gajets. I earn them, so... Oh and Once I broke ties I mean I'll break ties. I have other people in my life that really care about me, I care about myself, and though it has been challinging, I don't wish to come back to my parents at all, even if I fall. So till this day I've tried to have a loving relationship with my mother, but her religion and her man go first. Oh, and she doubted my sexual abuse, so yeah. And no I'm not doing wild things, I'm pursueing whq I want in life. So sorry, Joanne. You cannot generalize that breaking ties is childish.
Didn't we say there were exceptions? That abuse is one of them? Well, to spell it out for you, an exception is something other than the norm. No single post can coer every single person's situation. I had my own challenges growing up but part of growing up was to realize that what I went through was not the norm and doesn't dictate the norm for other people, nor does it mean others can't discuss an issue for which I myself might have been an exception.
Well, I think the problem here is that the first posters situation falls in one of these exceptions. Fact is, this, as far as we know goes beyond what is considered the norm for parents, it goes beyond being over protective and in to being controlling/emotionally manipulative, so all this talk about the perfect situation is worthless to the original poster, and makes her out to be the problem.
I don't know her well, but that's how I see it.
No situation is perfect even if both sides love each other.
It simply requires some give and take, and on a childs side some growing up some times.
That is a general statement as well.
Thats why i keep stressing the point that parents need to learn how to let go, and kiddies also need to learn how to help the process as well. There's no perfect parents, just like there's no perfect kid in the world.
Lots of good points. Maybe the op didn't say there was someting wrong or outside the norm in her situation, but maybe it's not something she wants to go in to great detail about. It would help to have a better understanding. But let's go with the normal, stable family situation since we seem to be going in that direction. (not sure what or how that is defined maybe because I haven't really seen a stable family setting before but I digress).
Everyone always says that in any good relationship that communication is key. They mostly apply this to dating and being married to someone but generally this goes for any relationship, including a family. So let's say for example you want to go out to a party with some friends. It should be expected that the kid goes up to the mother or father or guardian and says, "I want to go to a party." And the parent responds with questions like what time is it, and did you do your homework. The kid responds and says they didn't and the parent tells them they need to do it first, plus do their chores and then they can go. The kid gets annoyed and says that he/she doesn't want to but the parent stays firm. Now how often do you hear of a situation that goes exactly in this way? Nowadays, either it seems like the parent tries to be more of a friend with their children instead of fulfilling their parental responsibilities appropriately, or they are too strict and disciplinary. Not everyone shares the same beliefs about parenting, and not everyone was raised the same way by their parents. It's easy for us to act like we would do it this way, but it is hard for some to discern the difference between good and poor parenting. I'm not talking about abuse because that is a given, but sometimes it might be hard for the child to tell if the parent is acting a certain way for a good reason, or if they are overstepping their boundary. Plus, there is not a manual that says everything in these regards. Hope this makes sense.
I don't think it is good to generalise about situations like this. Some parents who are perceived to be control freaks want to be strict and control all sorts of aspects of their children's lives. Other parents are over-protective and underestimate the ability of their children. There are also parents who interfere or nag too much but are more irritating than controling.
In this case it sounds like Becky may be overreacting. My views on somebody answering questions on my behalf depend on their answers. If they're correct it isn't something to worry about. As for being told to do things you know to do, that is annoying but it isn't something to be outraged about.
I don't think either of those things have any impact on the ignorance of others. They may be just as ignorant or understanding as they were prior to those things happening. I think Becky's reaction may be influenced by her perception of how she is perceived by people who can see.
I don't think most people who can see give that much thought to how people who can't see live and manage. I think they have more interesting things to think about.
If Becky's mum was a control freak she wouldn't be telling her to do things - she'd be telling her not to do things.
If only Becky's mum was on the Zone, Becky could click ignore and that would put a stop to her being able to tell her to do what she is doing anyway or speaking for her.
I don't know Becky, nor am I well acquainted with her situation, but I really don't think she is overreacting, based on her post. If nothing else, parents do not have the right to speak for their adult offspring. I'm not sure about the other things she's mentioned, as a lot of the information is very general, but based on even that small tidbit alone, her mom has to step back a little and re-examine the way she treats Becky. And, Senior, can you back up what you said about control freaks only telling people -not to do things? I'm curious as to what makes you say that.
Cutting ties is probably a drastic measure if every other option proves fruitless, though hopefully it will not come to that
I don't think you know very much about controlling parents Senior. I also find you to be making some pretty wild assumptions. My controlling stepfather and mother both told me more so what I better do, than telling me what not to do. This is one of those subjects that if you don't have personal experience with, and you can't hold a very strong argument, you'd just be better off keeping your nose out of it.
I find myself asking the same question: how exactly is a person not controlling if they do tell you what to do, rather than what Not to do? I've met plenty of both types, and they've been parents and others--regardless of what they ask a person to do or not to do, it's the attitude that they bring forth, the manipulative and micromanaging nature rather than what they ask of the person. Thus, even if the person being controlled is going to do what the controller asks or tells them to do, the attitude of the controller is still damaging and inhibiting to the one being controlled.
Oops...should mention that what I meant to say in my last post was: "Cutting ties is probably a drastic measure, unless every other option proves fruitless"
It is true that the parent becomes the child sooner or later. This means that, at times, they must be delt with in the same way a misbehaving kid would be treated.
Absolutely. Parents are going through the painful process of letting go, and it's important that their kids keep that in mind. It's not right, the way they sometimes handle things, but compassion goes a long way.
And also at times, you must be firm with the parent. Learn to say "no" to the parent. Correct him or her when they stray down the wrong path.
Most of what I think has already been said here. Try to understand, be firm, be honest, and fair...all that jazz.
One thing I want to reiterate though, because I don't think it can be said enough:
Cutting ties should be categorically the last thing you do, and should not be done in a fit of anger or frustration when you think you've had enough. Even if you regret it later, and even if you try to undo it, the damage was done. I'm not saying that it's never ever appropriate, only that it's probably suitable in a good deal fewer cases than folks might have you believe sometimes.
When you don't get what you want from your parent, and ultimately decide to say "fuck you" and throw all your toys out of the pram, you are proving that they are right and that they have taught you nothing. Instead of dealing realistically with the situation you very well may have simply buried the harmful part of it. As I said, sometimes this is necessary, but it shouldn't be a go-to suggested by people unless they know the situation inside out, and shouldn't even be considered unless serious physical or emotional abuse is happening. And let me clarify just a little further: annoying the hell out of you, questioning you at every turn and otherwise belittling you do not necessarily count as the sort of emotional abuse I'm talking about.
My mother has some of the traits that have been mentioned in this thread. She will do things for me if given half a chance. She will prompt me, even still, to say "thank you" sometimes, even though she absolutely doesn't have to by this point. She has her own ideas about what's best for me and is free with her opinions. I used to get really upset by this, and sometimes I still do, but what I learned from her was the sort of thing Leo was saying...you have to teach a parent what's okay and what's not, and barking at them/telling them how very angry they're making you probably isn't going to do it. On several different occasions I had to sit my mom down and just explain things...honestly, firmly and in-depth. Did she change? Well, not really, but a little. At the very least, it gave her a chance to explain why she did what she did. In her case, she actually admitted that some of her quirks won't change, and that I'd best make my peace with them, but she did say that, as far as the more offensive things, she'd try and do better. She even thanked me for expaaining it instead of just getting annoyed, as I used to do.
I won't lie. At its worst, I wondered about minimizing contact with my mom, back in the day, just after my brother died and she became a different person to interact with. This wasn't really her fault, but I was hardly in a position to handle it. I look back on that time and, instead of feeling self-righteous or confused, I feel ashamed for having thought those things. I've got a good mother, and to quote a Jann Arden song, "her voice is what keeps me here". She's always in my corner, so unless something cataclysmic happens, I see no reason to be hastyyand brush her aside.
I probably got a bit lucky. Not everyone does, of course. But as has been said before, try considering, or outright discerning, where the parent is coming from. See if there's any way, besides just yelling or bashing your head against it, to change the perspective. Then see about letting the criticism or judgment or constant advice roll off your back. Hear it, don't act on it.
I don't know your situation, but wish you the best of luck.
I disagree wholeheartedly with Greg's post, and honestly, I'm beyond saddened to see that anyone wouldn't consider constant belittling a reason to think twice about this "good mother" thing he mentioned.
explaining, no matter who it is, or how many times it's done, sometimes will never work, and I, personally, have no time for people that aren't willing to recognize that fact.
Chelsea, you and I may come from very different walks of life, and thus may not share similar outlooks on life, family, etc. But here's my understanding of what Greg was conveying. In most cases, you really can't choose your family. The wold is made up of flawed people. There are the quirky ones, the annoying ones, the overbearing ones, the bitchy ones, the snobs, the nerds, and the whatever else have you. Andguess what? They all deserve a family. Sometimes, people are so unfortunate as to not have a strong familial support system, and the threat of danger is iminent and constant. But in cases where someone is annoying you or maybe even dissing you a little, writing them out of yoru life completely is drastic and not called for. Because despite a person's misunderstandings of your lifestyle, your disability or what have you, if you've grown up around them, if you've shared things with them, ate at the same table for years, if they've helped you or vice versa, writing them otu of yoru life is not only unnatural, it's unsettling. We can't always do everything on our own, and though ideally we'd like to, we don't always have the good fortune to befriend a bunch of people who aren't family but who share our views, so much so that they'll become family.
Case and point: My uncle acts like a douch when it comes to critisism of others. He said a lot of hurtful and uncalled for shit about me and to my face when he found out that I was pregnant with my son. He mainly emphasized that it was stupid of two people who are blind to put themselves in a situation where they have to support a baby, etc. That's a douchbag thing to say, no? Of course it is. But guess what? Now that my son is a year and a half, because he's at my mother's house when I've visiting as well, the two have bonded with each other. He and his girlfriend even took my son apple picking with them last weekend, and he thoroughly enjoyed himself. My uncle, who is a professional barber, gives my partner haircuts which always helps us out a little by making it easier on us financially and transportation-wise. I help his girlfriend edit her manuscripts. And when we're not talking about very serious issues, we can get along with some light conversation about mutual interests. Because we're family. Because we can lend each other support even if we dont' see eye to eye.
My partner and I had the option of staying in massachusetts instead of heading back to my hometown in CT when my son was born. My family is strictly catholic and therefore, the birth of a child out of wedlock was sure to become a bit stigmatic, not to mention that they're not the most educated about the daily functioning of blind people.
Yet we chose to face the music and deal with them because they were, and still are, a network of support. Could we have done it alone with an infant in a place where we didnt' know many people? Sure I'm positive we would've survived. But it would have been a hell of a lot harder, and unnecessary struggle, which wouldn't have been fair to our kid.
Sometimes, sticking with family even if you don't see eye to eye is the best thing to do for all involved.
So you have to withstand a little friction here and there. Nobody's perfect. It's no secret that people dont' always like all of their family members, but most people do love the members within a family.
Maybe that's something that's a foreign concept to some, but the truth is, cutting ties isn't always healthy, and unless there's real danger in staying connected, it should be an absolute last resort.
Bernadetta, I understood perfectly well what Greg was saying, and I still stand by what I said.
it's obvious that I don't think like the majority does, and that's fine.
while some choose to stick with family, just cause they're family, I'm a firm believer that sometimes, chosen family is best. blood relation doesn't signify family, in my opinion.
I'm on the fence, actually. While I still maintain that cutting ties should be a last resort of sorts, since there's nearly always a way to reason with someone who loves you enough to be overprotective of you, I think that there are some cases when we have to throw the old saying about "blood being thicker than water" out the window. However, I think we might be talking about two completely different types of situations: abuse is not the same thing as overprotectiveness. If your parent is having trouble letting go, struggling to realize that you can do it on your own and are not a child anymore, that's one thing and can often be resolved; maybe not with ease, but at least with patience and time. I've become very frustrated with my parents' overprotectiveness at times, but I'm still glad they're around, because I don't have to do every little thing they say or believe everything they tell me about myself or my circumstances. There's something to be said for sorting wheat from chaff, and if you can salvage a relationship with a family member, why not do so?
Abuse, on the other hand, is not overprotectiveness, it's abuse. There's a difference between being overbearing and being a control freak. If your parent is trying to literally run your life in a malicious way, then you've every right to get away from the situation and seek out the company of people who care enough about you to recognize that you can make your own decisions and, most importantly, your own mistakes. From what I can see, cutting ties due to overprotectiveness without exhausting other options is drastic and possibly unhealthy; cutting ties because of abuse is not only healthy but probably necessary.
Chelsea, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that you come from an abusive background; in your case, cutting ties probably makes a lot of sense. Gregg, on the other hand, does not come from an abusive background. He has a very overbearing mother who has never quite been able to accept that he's a grown man and doesn't need her anymore, and this has been very difficult for him to deal with. However, cutting ties with her over that sort of thing is much more drastic than cutting ties in Chelsea's situation.
In the case we're speaking about (Becky's) I don't know all the details, but I suggested that cutting ties should be a last resort as what she is describing does not sound like abuse. It sounds more like overprotectiveness taken to extremes. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like from here.
Yes, as I have stated, it really depends.
I came from a great family, and while married I’ve had to deal with the other side of a family.
Cutting ties just is the last.
First you must try to work things out, even if that means getting in your own space to do it, but try.
This might not work, but just tossing in the towel because someone got on your worst side is not ideal.
You know, as pointed out, even the person that is causing you emotional stress, just might be the exact person that helps you greatly when you are in need, and they realize they were wrong?
Humans have a hard time with “I’m sorry” so do things to make it better. Refusing to accept the kindness is many times self destructive, and nonproductive.
I stand by only in extreme cases do you cut ties.
You might not speak to a person on a regular bases, nor deal with them, but when they come in to your orbit, so to speak, you don’t rebuff them, you treat them with kindness.
That, in my life, has gone a long, long way.
Choosing to be happy is far better then choosing strife, remembering the wrongs, and holding that heavy ax all the time.
That stuff should only be brought out when you need it.
I'm fortunate enough to have come from a fantastic family, but I've had to deal with the sorts of things the original poster describes a number of times, as well. However, from the sounds of her post, my case wasn't nearly as severe. And generally, it isn't my mother who behaves like that, but rather it's my father, and a lot of this, I think, comes from the fact that I am his only daughter, his princess, and, oh yeah, I'm blind. My brothers are both completely un-impaired, as it were, and therefore have been treated differently, and my dad grew up with no sisters or close female cousins. As "unfair" as some of you, and even me at times, sees this, I think it goes back to what leo kind of talks about. And while sometimes I feel like totally shutting my dad out for his outdated views and ridiculous overconcern, I realize that educating him, letting him see how competently I go about life, and, most importantly, appreciating that his concern is out of love for his one and only daughter, has allowed our relationship to be much better than it was in high school, when I was blind to these things.
And yes, I totally appreciate that there is the possibility that the original post was more or less referring to things that Milagros and Chelsea touched upon, in which case cutting ties would most likely be the best option. Otherwise, I would tend to agree with Gregg or Bernadetta.
Thank you, meglet and Wayne. I happen to agree on both counts. Chelsea, I actually don't think that simple biology constitutes family. My bio father is a stranger to me because he chose to be one. I don't consider him family and I have no obligation toward him as far as I'm concerned because he made it so that I never got a chance to know him. I'm perfectly comfortable with that.
TO me, family are the people who've been around all my life, and regardless of their views, their level of education, their misguided beliefs about blindness, they've been there for me when I was in need, and they continue to be there. That, to me, constitutes a strong familial bond. And though I may argue with some of them or disagree at least once a month approximately, lol, it still gives me great comfort to know they're around. That regardless of what happens, Sunday dinner with the family, for instance, is still on.
It's great that Meglet distinguished between abuse and annoyance or overprotectiveness, or even ignorance. Though words may hurt at times, though frequent misunderstandings may occur, that's vastly different than being in line of great danger and/or neglect. The way I see it is, if my family and I dont' see eye to eye, simply living in my own space day to day makes it ok for me to see them with regularity or on occasion. Living with someone who is overbearing or belittling at times (maybe not even realizing they're either) is far greater a problem than having to see someone like that on a visit from time to time. As long as I know I can go home after a visit with family, as long as I know I can relax and de-stress and I have the freedom to do as I like with my life and my son, etc., I see absolutely no reason to cut ties with anyone. You never know when you may need someone, or when there's a chance for you to show someone they can lean on you likewise.
I am a natural introvert, thus I am comfotable being alone at times. I've done that plenty in my 24 years. But being alone, as in totally alone without reliable support is discomforting and unsettling. I understand that when it comes to abusive relationships, breaking away and being alone is the better option. But when someone chooses to be alone for the sake of only being around people who think exactly alike, who respect exactly the same things, and shutting others out just because they don't see eye to eye and can be annoying at times is not only possibly unhealthy, but also limiting. If I've grown up around someone, if they've been there for me as a kid, I have time for them, even if it's just a few minutes at a time.
Right on, Bernadetta and Meglet. You two, among others as well, seem to get what I'm saying.
Abuse, really bad behaviour that borders on abuse...that's ugly, and may merit cutting llose if nothing else is available, even if said action is temporary, a sort of "I'll be back when you get your shit together" sort of thing.
Is it truly "beyond saddening" that most of us give a damn about the folks who bothered with us enough to at least attempt to give them the benefit of the doubt?
Is it beyond saddening that most of us, believe it or not, know the difference between abuse and bad behaviour and will tolerate the former far less than the latter?
Where I'm from, these traits pretty much set a benchmark for emotional maturity. Not having one or both is probably a good sign that you are ill-prepared for the social life that awaits you. I have seen this happen enough to say so. It's no guarantee, mind you, but it's something to consider.
I urge anyone willing to cut ties to consider a few things:
1. Even if maybe you'd take it back down the road,,you might not get the chance. Do you want to live with the idea that the person you got away from is now dead and beyond the reach of everyone? This won't necessarily sway people every time, nor should it, but still.
2. Would you want someone to ditch you with equal speed if you annoyed them, , upset them or ruffled their feathers one too many times? We all step on one another's toes. Having a short fuse, while simultaneously endorsing the "treat others as you wish to be treated" mentality means you might be a very lonely person, and all for the sake of this empty righteousness you preach. I hope it makes good company.
3. Even if you have to get away from a situation because you simply can't deal with it (and this does happen, I know it does), don't necessarily wall off the idea of having a second look later on. Maybe you won't, but maybe people can change and it might be worth your while to at least keep an eye open. In almost every case, there was a good reason you cared about them, or were dealing with them, and this shouldn't be forgotten, even if sometimes it's overmastered by everything else.
Anyway, ramble over.
Meglet, you're right about me coming from an incredibly abusive situation, which is why I take the stance I do, regarding this issue.
that being said, I'm smart enough to know the difference between abuse, and extreme overprotectiveness (I've dealt with both from blood relatives, and wouldn't have made such a rash decision as cutting them out of my life just cause we don't see eye to eye on things).
I'm not the type of person who only has people around who agree with me, or who share my views on life, relationships, ETC. in fact, the last thing I want is for people to constantly agree with me, or for me to constantly agree with others. that'd sure make for a boring life.
I'm also not disputing the fact that people should try to work things out, if possible.
Chelsea, that's good to know. What you've just told me is that you didn't actually see what I was saying at first, but you seem to now.
I'm glad you're in favour of working things out where possible. Being willing to get someone away from you at the drop of a hat seems, dare I say it, unwise.
I have a lot of sympathy, for all the good it does, for those who are abused and badly treated, who have trouble getting out of their situation or who have been in that situation to begin with. It's not fair, and it's not kind. It makes me wish people were better to one another.
One thing I do know. If ever I had to totally get someone out of my life, my predominant emotion would probably be regret, or sorrow, and never mind if they were abusive. There's still a person in there, despite the bad behaviour. I wouldn't blame myself or anything, but I'd be sorry as hell that it hadn't worked out. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'd feel relief at being free as well, and I think that's healthy enough, but I would still be saddened by the fact that one human being, for whatever reason, felt forced to totally excommunicate another.
Greg, I didn't misunderstand what you said.
I don't at all share your feelings of regret, sorrow, or wishing things were, or would be, different with regard to my situation, nor do I want sympathy from others.
I realize many people do feel that way, and that's their porrogative. however, I've honestly never felt so free, as the day when I realized enough was enough, and admitted that continuing to convince myself that my blood relatives cared, or were worthy of any ounce of kindness from me, would only make me, and everyone else miserable.
so, to answer the questions you posed earlier, regarding whether or not I'd be able to live with myself knowing they died, or that I didn't give things a second look, I can honestly say yes, I live with myself now, incredibly happi in that decision, and would never, for any reason, welcome them into my life ever again.
they don't deserve to be there, and I'm not willing to allow such people around, period.
I wouldn't want my future children, husband, wife, or anyone else I associate with, to encounter them.
Going along with what I said earlier about the alcohol addiction problem that exists in my family, Greg brings up a good point. Despite the huge impact that alcohol presses on my mother's life she is still a person. She still has the motherly instincts, where she wants to look out for me and make sure that I am ok, that I do well in school and that I even do things like brush my teeth everyday. Also going along with what Leo said about parenting before, I do understand at some point you have to do something tough. You have to realize that your baby is growing up and you can't treat them like a little kid. That must be hard, but it is part of being a parent and a part of life. So though I might get annoyed if she asks questions that you should be asking a kid and not a 21-year-old man, I try to understand where she is coming from. Here is where I personally, recently, had to draw the line. The topic shifted to me eventually being a father and I told her honestly that I am not sure whether or not I want to be a father. She then goes in to a long tangent about how I will be one and I will be a great father. I tried explaining to her that there are a lot of unknowns to me about being a father, because I never had what I would call a stable, exemplifying father. This was difficult though as she continued to interrupt me and say that I am wrong and not give me clear answers as to why I am wrong, and why "I will be a father someday." During this same conversation she continuously tried pressuring me in to telling her about the abuse and things that I went through with my father which I am not typically comfortable talking about with anyone, due to the fact that I have put that behind me, and I don't handle the flashbacks and very rare nightmares very well. It upsets and enrages me to think about it which I know is unhealthy. But I gave in to her demands and went in to detail and ended up in this state of mind for the rest of the day, hardly able to sleep and in to part of the next day until I ran until I was exhausted and my head was clear. Despite my explanation of why I didn't want to discuss this she still demanded that I tell her, and yes I shoudln't have given in. Whether or not she was intoxicated I'm not sure, because it's been getting harder and harder to tell since her sober personality seems all most molded with the intoxicated one.
Family is family, and no family, let alone family member, is the same person. We all have different set backgrounds and environments that we dealt with or continue to deal with. Plus, we are all different ourselves. So how one person decides to handle this will work for that person, but that isn't to say it will work for the original poster. Weigh both sides and see what's more important to you, and what you are willing to sacrafice. Choose which battles are worth fighting in your best interest. While it's nice to be empathetic and consider the other person's feelings in the family, you can't help how they feel unless you are willing to take a sacrafice for yourself.
Addiction is a bitch. It's a multi-faceted monster that climbs on your back and settles there. People have responsibilities when they get addicted to something - the more harmful the addiction, the more true the statement - but this comes with a harder task. Admitting you need help is fairly easy for many. Getting it is fairly easy too. What's not always easy is sticking to it, telling yourself every day that no, you don't need a drink, or that no, you don't need to go down to the store and buy a hundred dollars worth of scratch tickets...or any number of things. Many addicts are good people with a big problem. Some aren't, but they'd be in the minority I think. In any case, Ryan is basically spot on. Ask yourself what you're willing to sacrifice.
I agree with chelsae on this one. Family members are just people. They're like anyone else; you won't, and indeed, don't, have to get along with them.
it's refreshing to see that someone agrees with me about family not deserving special treatment, simply cause they're related by blood. that notion truly, truly sickens me, more than words can express.
Ah, but abusive people no matter who are to be gotten rid of. This is over protective, and that tells me some of it is love, not abuse.
People tend to over protect when they care, not to harm you, or cause you pain.
I stand by teaching a loved one that they are smothering you is better than getting mad and not talking to them.
Here's the thing, Chelsea: I personally don't really think that family is deserving of forgiveness because of their blood relation to me. I believe they deserve it because of the things they've done for me. My sister might really upset me at times but she was a great big sister while we were growing up and loves me to bits. My mom and Dad, while overprotective in the extreme sometimes, raised me well and took really good care of me. In that light, abusive family members are deserving of nothing you wouldn't give to someone else, because they haven't earned it. I have familial love and respect for those members with whom I visit a lot and who have beenn good to me, but not much at all for, say, that cousin I haven't seen since we were both about ten and who never bothers to keep in touch.
Meglet, I'm glad you said what I was thinking on this one. Family isn't special because of blood, they're special because of association. I don't find it sickening to think that I'd probably give my father or mother more chances and more leeway than I would, say, a friend I'd known for six or seven years. That friend didn't have to deal with the freakish first few months of realizing their little one was blind, and "oh my god what the fuck do we do now?" that resulted. This friend didn't have to deal with a dozen and a half years of feeding me, putting clothes on my back, making sure I had a warm place to sleep. They didn't deal with a dozen and a half years of my asking "why?" or being mouthy or challenging authority. We often put parents, especially, through a lot...some of us more than others. This is not a license to allow yourself to be abused by said parents (or if it's your aunt, or grandmother, same deal). It simply means that they've taken a hell of a lot of your crap over the years and probably never once thought of tossing you aside, so if nothing else, you try and give them the same courtesy. If that's sickening, then I can do nothing but shake my head at the morality that says so.
Agreed with the past two posts:
I have no blood relations, as I am adopted. Yet they are family because I grew up around them. Do I profoundly disagree on many points? Sure. And only a child would operate in the black-and-white, either-or of total acceptance or total cutting off.
It isn't a matter of entitlement: I can't explain it. But yes, I understand distance, and distance is healthy I think for many. But distance is different from completely cutting them out. There are some cases with family and others where that has to be done, and seen as a drastic measure should be executed cleanly with the understanding of how grave a situation it really is.
I am reasonably careful not to burn bridges, though.
to each their own, I say.
Thanks Meglet, Leo and shepherdwolf. What you three have said in your latest posts has been lingering in my mind regarding this topic, but I couldn't find the best way to word it. In this case, a black and white perspective, as leo said, is not only childish but unhealthy in my oppinion. Because if one is willing to cut people out of his or her life right and left, regardless of who they are by association and what their bond has been like over the years, etc, then where's the boundary. What triggers this cutoff and what's there to stop you from cutting someone out because of something seemingly epic, when really, it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. I find it really unsettling,and perhaps even sad that someone would waste no regret, no sadness, no worry, no feelings akin to those which humans normally feel when choosing to break ties with those they've known forever. It's unsettling that it's so easy for some people.
I once dated someone who's parents had completely cut themselves off from the rest of their families, save a rickety old aunt who was no more pleasant than the rest of them. They never got along with anyone, and always talked trash about everyone and everything including me--and they instilled that in their son. I was young, thus didnt' see for a long time that this person was nowhere near right for me, but I had a gut feeling that the way his family operated wasn't any way I'd want to live. but what alarmed me about him the most, even well before I took the bull by the horns and broke it off with him, is the fact that he encouraged me to distance myself from the people I cared about the most at the drop of a hat. My mom got upset at the fact my phone bill was high during a point at which I dated this guy (it was a long distance relationship and I was not yet eighteen), and he tried to convince me that she's styfling me and that I need to cut her out of my life. My little sister plain didnt' like him--she had a bit of a mouth on her as a teen ager, and in an effort to protect me from this guy--also because she probably felt angry at what I was dealing with during the relationship--she told him a few choice words, and for weeks, because of that incident he tried to tell me that if my sister doesn't respect him, I should distance myself from her.In fact, I should cut her out of my life because she doesn't care enough about me to respect the person I'm with. That she runs with a bad crowd, she's a typical teenager, probably on drugs, etc, etc, etc. None of which was true.
Now had I been the type of person who was easily swayed by the idea of cutting off from the people I'd grown up around, I'd have succumbed to the isolation. In fact, this relationship, for a time, did damage my relationship with my family members--all water under the bridge now. But my point is, had I been more prone to that idea, he would have successfully isolated me from my family--a classic trait of an abusive partner--and I'd have probably had only him and his family to lean on. Only thing is, he decided to pick a fight with his parents a few months later, told them he new he never loved them since he was a small child, and they hadn't heard from him again. Turns out that this guy has some pretty in-depth mental issues--not my decree but that of a bunch of professionals--and I have no doubt that if he had some more support in his life, if perhaps his parents had more of an immediate circle to lean upon, maybe he'd have learned what it means to bond with someone, what it means to have a family. Now, I'm sure someone's going to bawk at this post, and my viewpoint, but it's true that people with mental illnesses are much better off when they have supportive family members, and those who don't have them are much worse off.
Maybe I went off on a bit of a tangent, but this is my explanation of why I find the idea of cutting people who have been around forever, people who haven't been outright abusive, is alarming and in some instances unhealthy.
I get that it's better not to cut people out if you can avoid it. But sometimes love just isn't enough. My parents were sometimes overprotective, but that's what parents are there fore. It doesn't mean I didn't love them, and I did talk with them whenever I felt they were being too constraining, and usually they came to see things my way. But we always had a pretty close relationship, and the idea of cutting them completely out of my life would've been devastating to me. The only time we were more distant than normal is when I got married (oddly enough to someone of the opposite gender as myself) and they saw this person as the wrong one. It turned out they were ultimately right, but I wanted to be a good spouse, and they and she just didn't get along, but I felt I had to separate myself from them a bit and solve my own problems. Ultimatly she and I couldn't, largely because I was with the wrong gender and I wasn't as flexible as I thought I was, but that's another story for another time.
But back to the issue. What if there's not an abusive situation and love simply isn't enough? I haven't been in this situation, but I can see it happening. What if you've tried to talk to the people attempting to overprotect you and they simply won't get it? They're doing it out of love, but that love by its nature becomes abusive because they're not leting you reach your full potential. Then, it seems to me, you have to cut them out or cave in. You don't have any other choices. Caving in hurts you because you've lost self-respect and dignity. Cutting them out hurts because you feel like a first-class shit for rejecting people who love you, have always loved you from the get-go. But cutting them out is the only way you can be free. How do you repair the rift unless you can sanely talk about things and get them to realize you had to do it for both your own and their good? I can see a lot of resentment that may not ever be healed, but maybe sometimes that's the answer.
I have no doubt that if such a situation arose, I'd choose to cut them out, or at least distance myself until/unless the rift could be mended somehow. An abusive situation is an abusive situation, love or no. If that love is getting in the way of you living your life as any normal human being has the right to, then the decision to cut them out would make sense. All I've really been trying to say is that it should never ever be taken lightly.
thank you, Johndy. that's exactly the point I've been trying to make, in everything I've said.
so, for anyone who's falsely under the impression that I'm talking about mild circumstances, as many of you seem to think is the case, I hope that's cleared up, now.
sometimes, love isn't enough, nor is the fact that people go through the motions of acting like they care, when, in truth, they're only doing it cause they don't want the world to know what's going on behind closed doors.
obviously, some people have difficulty grasping that concept, but it's a reality for some of us, nonetheless.
as I've said, if things can be worked out by everyone involved, that's one thing. however, if they can't, such people shouldn't be looked down upon cause of it.
thank you, Johndy. that's exactly the point I've been trying to make, in everything I've said.
so, for anyone who's falsely under the impression that I'm talking about mild circumstances, as many of you seem to think is the case, I hope that's cleared up, now.
sometimes, love isn't enough, nor is the fact that people go through the motions of acting like they care, when, in truth, they're only doing it cause they don't want the world to know what's going on behind closed doors.
obviously, some people have difficulty grasping that concept, but it's a reality for some of us, nonetheless.
as I've said, if things can be worked out by everyone involved, that's one thing. however, if they can't, such people shouldn't be looked down upon cause of it.
Chelsea, If my memory serves, most if not all of those who have countered your argument (and not even in outright disagreement with it) have been careful to admit that abuse is a different story from misguided love and overprotectiveness. Some of us have even taken it a step further and admitted that love is indeed not always going to remedy every situation. And I really don't think anyone is looking down on you specifically; I know I'm certainly not doing so. What we have been doing is cautioning against black and white perspectives in general, which you don't seem to have anyway.
we need to realize that love is a word thrown around constantly. If someone--including a parent--says they love you, you should take it with a grain of salt.
my thoughts exactly, margorp.
Oh, absolutely. But a lot of parents really do love their kids. They wouldn't put up with us if they didn't. It's important that a person not let their own situation colour every situation. Just because my family was good to me doesn't mean everybody's is, and just because your family wasn't good to you doesn't mean every family's love should be looked upon with suspicion and questioned.
I agree with the last post. I have really tried to not color my view of general situations with the specifics of mine. Much of mine I have not shared on here but it was less than ideal in quite a few ways. However, I will say again, that the answer is not total acceptance or total cutting off, most times. Even the most healthy loving relationships between parents and kids benefit when the kids distance themselves for a while and live their own lives, coming back as equal participating adults rather than kiddos asking for money and support. Because sooner or later, for most of us anyway, whether parents like it or not, they will need the kids' support.
I understand that Chelsea's situation is different, so is a lot of people I have known, and so in some ways wasmine. But to sit and defend over and over like a religious mantra won't change anyone's mind either: it will just be like saying ohm or our father over and over. Meaning comes from context.
And Bernadetta's right about the human aspects, I think. I know pretty little about mental illnesss but it seems somewhat challenging that a human being would have no feeling of regret on that issue. Regret doesn't mean indecisive, or even remorse, it's just an appreciation of how grave the situation is. We all have regrets. I certainly have mine, and some of mine, ironically, come from times and circumstances many have argued I shouldn't have had to endure. But as a human being of course I might well regret how I responded, even if intellectually I understood why or knew my own limitations at the time.
Hard decisions are hard decisions, primarily because our humanity causes us to have these types of responses. And that is what keeps us humane about the whole thing.
Lack of regret and complete lack of empathy is the province of fanatics and fundamentalists of any sort.
I’ll continue with Leo’s thoughts some.
Love and abuse are clearly defined. This is when the adult part comes in to play.
A child says, “I’m an adult” so that child has to understand when they are being abused, or just loved.
If you remember back I stated a person should limit the visits, and keep their own space, so when things get difficult, they can go to it.
That person has to be self-reliant however.
Cutting a person from your life because they drink too much, but have never really harmed you, requires some adult reasoning.
Chelsea’s case is different, and like Meglet, I don’t think we are disagreeing with you, but you also have to understand our side of the coin.
Some of us have had healthy, loving over protectiveness, and that is what we know, just like you know extreme abuse.
You can’t tell us all to ditch these people when they aren’t making us happy, without knowing the dept. of feelings we have for them, and what they’ve actually done for us.
That is the adult, and when you put away childish things, and see a parent as a person.
A parent is just like you, and adult that makes mistakes, and one of them might be over protecting you.
leo, I feel you're wrong, when you say everyone has regrets.
I know that's something the majority of the world agrees with you on, but I don't believe such a thing is true.
it certainly isn't so for me, as I've said, and I think it's quite ignorant of people to claim something like that, when everyone handles things differently, and feels differently about various outcomes/what they've learned from said experiences.
I, personally, have nothing to regret, as I don't make rash or childish decisions.
I think things through clearly, ask myself why I feel the way I do about whatever the situation happens to be, and then, decide how best to handle things, after having weighed everything in its entirety.
oh, and, just cause I've had an abusive upbringing, doesn't mean I'm saying that everyone's parents are shitty. far from it.
I don't believe that anyone should be made to suffer, for any reason, especially due to the actions of others.
I'm also not saying that everyone's parents don't love them, nor was I ever trying to imply that.
I think what's happening, is that people are getting a little touchy, cause I'm really passionate about my situation. however, as I've said in earlier posts, I'm all for families sticking together, provided they foster healthy relationships.
I don't expect anyone to get where I'm coming from, but there ya have it.
Ah, but I get exactly where you are.
I personally don't see it as a black or white thing however, so stand in the grey.
I’d like to say something about regrets as well.
I also believe everyone will have some. The longer you live, the more you might have.
I don’t see that as ignorant at all.
I would say a person that says they have no regrets either has not gotten in to a situation where the regret has come knocking at the door.
To say you never will have any regrets would be saying every choice you made in life was correct, and that you never ever made wrong choices.
The next thing would be not admitting you were wrong, because when you have to admit you are wrong that is a regret.
What you do with a regret makes the difference as I see it. People that are always moaning, depressed, or thinking about the mistakes they have made give regretting a bad name. Regretting doesn’t mean suffering over a choice you’ve made, but admitting you have and did and do make mistakes.
If you can repair a wrong choice, that is wonderful, but often times you can’t, and if you admit the fact it wasn’t the best choice, you’ll regret it.
I personally don’t have many regrets, and I feel fortunate not to, but I can’t say I have none at all, and always make the right choices. Sometimes I’m flat out wrong. What I do with that is repair all I can, and don’t dwell on the others. They will come to mind now and then, depending on situations, but they don’t have to rule.
The person that says they have no regrets, and truly doesn’t, is truly special.
On the other hand, they refuse to admit they make mistakes, or have, so mentally block them out. Denial.
Wayne, that's where I believe you, and others who share the same view as you, are mistaken.
I can honestly say I have no regrets. if I didn't mean it, I wouldn't say it.
I've gone through plenty of experiences in life that have been less than pleasant. however, as you said, it's how you handle them that makes the difference.
I have the gaul to admit when I'm wrong, and say when I've made a choice that ended up being stupid. however, that isn't the same thing as regret, in my opinion.
I take things from everything I go through, and when I make a stupid decision, I say so, determine what I could've done differently, learn from it, and figure out how I can use it to fuel me, rather than rule me in a negative way, as you talked about.
Chelsae, do you mean that you have no regrets about cutting out family members? I could understand that. Or do you mean you don't regret anything in your life? Just need clarification.
I don't really understand why it would be so difficult to imagine that Chelsea has no regrets concerning cutting out family members that were abusive to her. Many people might regret this decision, even if they know it was the right one, if there was more to it than abuse. But personally I don't think Chelsea is strange just because she doesn't feel regret for this specific situation.
For this situation itself, no...but it takes a very singular person to never feel regret, ever.
This is especially true if the person doesn't feel anyone, self included, should need to suffer pain on account of someone else, for any reason.
Suggests a fairweather-friend dynamic in the extreme, and no one, absolutely no one, is spared the lash.
I can totally see why a really abusive relationship, by itself, would foster no regrets in the victim.
I have staid one should cut abusive people out. No, you'll not regret that, that will be one of the best things you did.
But no regrets at all, I don't think that is possible for the reasons I've stated.
Meg, I understand. I was refering to whether she meant regrets in general or not. We all regret things. I don't regret my "relationship" with my family.
I understand, Margorp. I was referring to other posts besides your own.
I was mainly referring to the abusive situation I was in, but I was also saying that I don't have any regrets in life, period.
I get that most people won't even be able to comprehend that, which is understandable. however, I can honestly say that, even decisions I've made that I think back on now like, "what the hell was I thinking, in doing that?" I still don't regret whatever said things were. I learned from them, and I'm a better person cause of how I've allowed those unpleasant experiences to shape me for the better.
I guess I don't understand the concept of having no regrets. I've hurt people in the past and am deeply sorry for that, so I guess I regret those times, andI regret the things in life I didn't do when I had the chance to do them. But if someone can say with all honesty that they have no regrets, who am I to say otherwise?
True enough statement.
I guess with me regrets are just how iit works. I'm not tough enough, or whatever to just say, the hell with it. Lol
Agree with the last post. I'd like to think I am a rational human being, but humans are at the same time totally rational and totally sensitive and so even in abusive situations I have been in, I regret that things got to that point in the first place, the time wasted in trying to reconstruct myself afterwards, the circumstances that put those people into that lower state of being, and so on. Doesn't mean I think about it all the time: to be honest I think about it as little as possible.
But having feelings about what went on,, that is just human nature.
Wow, yeah, I used to say I have no regrets as well, but I can honestly say now, after some more of life's experience than I had when I said that, I do regret things I have done, and in some cases, not done. Not that I dwell on them, or let them hurt me even, but rather reflect on said "regretful" situations and let myself learn and grow from them. So in some ways, I am lucky to have gone through some of those experiences because they have allowed me to flourish, but still, it woulda been fine had they not happened, too. haha. As someone else said, a lot of my situations have to do with hurting people, sometimes ignorantly and needlessly, and man, I wish I had never hurt anyone. Also, as a teenager, I was so naive, and probably still am in some ways, but there are a number of decisions I made between age fourteen and eighteen that I absolutely regret... I can't honestly say that the experience I gained from making those wrong choices made them completely worth it.
And for the record, Chelsea, I'm not discrediting you in any way for having no regrets, or anyone else who lives that way. I think it's totally admirable. I just know I can't honestly say I have no regrets.
I'm sorry, if you don't regret anything you've ever done, you must think yourself to be perfect.
Hmm, so the question I have here, is must regret always be connected with sadness, loss or disappointment? Why or why not is it possible to look back on things you've done, admit you could have done better, but feel piece because of where you are now, rather than a soup of sadness, anger, loss and bitterness for what you only speculate could have been? Many people, though not all I know who carry regret in the sadness sense, are thinking about things from the perspective of what could have been, because the now isn't what they wish it to be. Rather than their past being motivation to improve the situation they find themselves in now, they hit the bottle thinking things like "I could still be with her" or "I could have been a millionaire now if I hadn't fucked up this badly." I know feeling grief and guilt and shame is all part of the healing process, but I also think its a bit unhealthy to let yourself guilt trip yourself in to acting based on a shit soup you've cultivated inside. Yes, we do all have to eventually eat the food we've prepared for ourselves, but delaying that just makes the anxiety worse. It really makes me wonder why our society tells us to make so many choices based on guilt and regret, rather than a productive and reasonable summation of our past errors, triumphs, and things we've learned. I've seen a lot of people spend so much time listening to their inner back seat driver they get broadsided by life, or so lost on the backroads they'll never find their way out again. I'm not saying regret is bad, but I am saying don't let it fester. its a lot like taking out the trash, or doing dishes. the longer you make up excuses, the worse the smell and potential consequences.
I think regret only means recognizing you truly made the wrong choices at one time or another. I don't necessarily think it needs to be linked to sadness. Not for me at least. Maybe for some people regret only means they wish things were different, they're sad, etc. I can honestly say I regret getting involved in a certain relationship in my past for example. I can say that because looking back, I can't see how I ever identified with that person at the time, what I got out of it, etc. I can also say, however, that the experience made me stronger, smarter and more aware. It's still a regret though, because, looking back from my point of view now, I would not wish to repeat that choice. Doesn't mean i'm hung up on it or sad, just that I understand myself enough to know what I feel about my past choices. If anything, it makes me thankful for my current situation, for my current partner and the family we've made together. If anything, I don't take my current life for granted. So regret does not have to be the negative thing that people often make it out to be, nor does it have to cary the aweful stigma that is often associated with it.
To have no regrets, in my mind, is to never had made any mistakes. and therefore, it's to never have learned from mistakes. That can't be a good perspective, in my oppinion.
what's clearly being misunderstood, here, is the fact that I'm not saying I haven't, or don't, make mistakes, nor do I think I'm perfect.
in fact, in earlier posts, I've said that I've thought back on certain situations I've been in, and wondered what the hell I was thinking. however, that doesn't mean I regret what I've done. it just means that I've been able to learn from them, and that I'd do them differently, if I have opportunities to.
so, no, I don't think my perspective is unhealthy, by any means. others are of course entitled to feel differently, though.
Looking back, wondering if you could have done things differently, is regret. It doesn't mean you sit around feeling sorry for yourself. I regret certain things I've done, yet I recognize the strength that came from what I've done. Tthis doesn't mean if I had acted differently I'd be not as strong. You're problem is that you can't see past your own ego to realize this. By not acknowledging the fact that you can be just a bit more humble is a sign of weakness.
Interesting question for all, is regret and guilt go hand in hand together?
Reason why i ask is that if we look back, which most of us do as a human, is there a time in your life that you regret but also guilty of something at the same time? And i realize that regret often use as a nagative emotion, what about positive regret or positive guilt?
In more lite discussion, one can feeling guilty for eating the whole chocolate cake and feeling guilty about it for example.
Or, more closely to the topic, one can be very successful, but at the same time regreting for not able to spend time with family and guilty about it cause parents is already pass away or children leaving home etc?
Just a thought. :)
A good thought. My regret doesn't make me morn, it just keeps me moving in the right direction.
I am guilty, but not mournful.
That's what I was talking about in my last post. I think there's an unnecessary stigma with the word "regret". Perhaps, chelsea, you believe in a different deffinition of the word, because what you're saying: the fact that you recognize you made bad choices in your life but that you've learned from them--that still classifies as regret. In my view at least.
Maybe in your view, regret signifies weakness and negativity. Maybe that's why you say you have no regrets.
Well spoken Wayne, for a change, we actually agree with each other. lol.
Lots of people view regrets as something big. You break the law, you on drugs, you abuse animals or children etc. But i see regret can be a small thing. From not attending one of your friend's party, to breaking a short glass that your great grand mother collect for hundret years etc. To be honest, everyone of us have regrets, just like no one can live a perfect life. Even if we are as perfect as we are, or not, we do have regrets. I don't think there is no regret, ever, in one's life. Even ask people like Princess Diana, Opera, Steve Jobs Bill Gates etc. I believe even Bin Ladin for what he worth will have regrets too.
Yes, regret does not always imply guilt. Most of us regret things that weren't our fault: we regret that something happened, some would say 'had to happen' but I don't believe in fate or that sort of thing.
I regret choices I've made, some of which I've still got guilt for but most the guilt phase is over. I also regret things that have happened, some of which I have sadness for and others the sadness has been replaced with acceptance.
The two mistakes people make is to either live in the past, or pretend they have no connection with the past at all. Living in the past keeps you bogged down, and having no connection with the past leaves you with no roots.
Yours was a fair question though, Joanne, and very pertinent.
I'm not gonna argue with people so unwilling to accept a perspective that vastly differs from the norm. I'll just say this. to me, regret is a negative thing. and, no, I'm not weak for having the view I do.
just as most of you believe that in saying the things I have, that signifies regrets, as we're seeing, here, regret obviously means different things to different people.
that doesn't make any of us unhealthier than one another, or whatever negative things people wanna ascribe to it. it simply is.
Who have ascribed terms like unhealthy? It seems like people are being rations, providing the definition of a word. Words have definitions that all of us understand or at least can have common understanding of. Who has ascribed what you're saying has been ascribed?
We don't believe regret has to be negative or unhealthy, we just feel regreat has the meaning of feeling like you've made mistakes, as you do, and doing better. To say you have no regrets would mean you forget about all the wrong you have done intenchenally, or accidently, and you say you remember.
Remembering seems to me to mean regretting.
Chelsea, if you possessed the opinion that apples were meat products and not fruit, you'd be wrong. Everyone else is going to tell you that apples don't come from an animal. You would persist in believing what you do in direct opposition to fact.
Now, that's a fairly extreme example, but it might more clearly demonstrate what's being said here. If you define regret in a way that almost no one else will share, and in a way that contradicts the general definition, then you have no business dismissing us out of hand as being unwilling or unable to accept your point of view. You are entitled to nothing here...no self-aggrandisement, no self-righteousness, no high ground of any kind - when you try and be that dismissive.
If you manage to get your definition of regret into the mainstream, or if your definition of regret -was already mainstream and widely accepted, then no one would be arguing with you. As it stands, though, you're either arguing for its own sake, or you're feeling cornered because maybe you used an expression that in hindsight wasn't dead accurate. If it's the latter...well hell, everyone does it, you don't have to admit it, and as you've said yourself you don't care. Just don't expect it to stand unchallenged, that's all.
A bit of personal story. So, if you dont want to listen, or dont wish to know, then, simply tap on to the next post or ignore me on the board, which ever, i don't care and take offended personally.
This year, i was in to Goalball a big time. Was in the process of state and national team selection. On a training camp, (some sort of "intensive" training for three days), i got hit by the ball. It was a direct hit on my right eye, the only eye that is functioning, or rather try to anyway.
Now, those that know Goalball, or feel for the goalball knows how heavy and thick and big the ball is. It was balling or traveling, whichever you call it in about 50 miles an hour.
As the result of that, i got retina detachment and need imidiate surgery, if not, i'll lose my entire sight for good within weeks.
Deal to my complication, i have both cornea transplant and retina reatachment. However, also deal to my eye complication, the cornea transplant starting to fail within a month of the surgery.
Am i regret to get involve in goalball? answer is no. Am i regret to be hit by the ball? the answer is yes. Can i do better and prevent the injury? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Am i upset? Of course i am, i'm a human with blood and emotions. But either way, i'm not guilty of going to the training, nor i living in the misery of it .
Am i trying to get sympathy from sharing this? People who knows me know that i'm definitely not. Therefore, i also trust that people will respect my personal space and reason why i share this.